Getting It Done: An Interview With Author Bailey-Bankston
In our interview, author Bailey-Bankston shares insights on her writing process, the thrill of getting a book published, taking a stand in life and lessons learned from the experience she captures in Beneath the Bars of Justice. Following the interview, read on, for a glimpse into the captivating story she unfolds in her book.
Njemile Ali
I'm speaking with Bailey Bankston, author of Beneath the Bars of Justice, a beautifully written—I'm going to call it a coming of age story—about a young, just barely teenage young woman in the early 1960s, who exhibited so much courage in her life and in the telling of her story. So thank you for coming.
Bailey-Bankston
Thank you for the invitation.
Njemile Ali
Yes, and thank you for agreeing to have some of your book featured in the first issue of KIZA BlackLit magazine.
Bailey-Bankston
I'm excited about your first edition. I'm looking forward to it.
Njemile Ali
Let me ask you, first, how did you choose to go from the original title, which was Across the Finish Line, to Beneath the Bars of Justice? Tells us that story.
Bailey Bankston
The original manuscript included three major segments. The Civil Rights portion was just one of the three. I was not successful in getting it published. Across the Finish Line was sort of the global title that represented different phases of the character's life. Although the character was based somewhat on some of the things in my life, it was a fictional story. It was about accomplishing tasks. And on the journey, when things set you back, keeping strong and being able to get to that end point. And “across the finish line” was dear to me, in a sense, because I was participating in races at the time.
I didn't do a marathon, but I was doing 10 Ks. So that was the goal—to get across that finish line. You didn't have to win, and I wasn't focused on winning, because I didn't compete at that level. It was just the self-satisfaction of crossing the finish line. Just like with the races, if I could have gotten that book published, it would have been a major milestone in my life. And that title originated from those kinds of experiences for me.
Njemile Ali
It sounds like another title coming up.
Bailey-Bankston
When I was not able to get the book published, I put it on the shelf and let the manuscript collect dust for over 20 years. And I had even relocated from Washington, DC to back home in Albany. Then one Sunday, I was looking through the newspaper, and I saw this seminar advertised about how to get your book published the contemporary way. So of course, that piqued my interest. It was a two- or three-day seminar offered at Darton College, which now is a part of Albany State University. And I took that seminar, which had to do with the fact that you could do self-publishing.
I was familiar a little bit with self-publishing from before, but it was very expensive. Also, at that time, my ego wouldn't let me think about that. I felt that, if the book was good enough, some publisher would pick it up. But of course, you know, that didn't happen. So now I was open. I said, "Okay, let me see what this contemporary way of publishing is." After that, I pulled my manuscript off the shelf. As I said, over 20 years had passed since the time I finished the original manuscript.
I had a new focus, and I wanted to use the work in some way. I decided to use the Civil Rights portion, which all along was the strongest. It was the part that was actually true about my life. I decided that I would pull that particular section out of the book and rework it to make it an independent piece. I didn't think it would take that long. But it took me about nine months to refocus it. I moved it from third person to first person, and made it so that it could be a standalone manuscript. And your sister, Marilyn Pounsel, was so instrumental in helping me get it finalized, she did the editing for me. I think it was maybe the end of June of 2013 when we felt that it was pretty much ready.
Then I had to go through getting a cover, and I actually ended up designing the cover. I had already explored Createspace along the way, and learned to upload the manuscript into their software. All of that took about a month or so. But by the end of July, it was actually ready to be purchased through Amazon. And I tell you, that was the most exhilarating and exciting time of my life. Actually, in fact, they did a sample book for me and sent it to me. I just, oh my goodness, I was jumping all around! To actually see it, that this is the book, I was so excited. The new title came from the fact that the Civil Rights piece was the only focus of the book. The idea of being beneath the bars of justice really represented the spirit of the story, and our fight and struggle for civil rights.
Njemile Ali
And it visually represented the story as well, because that was the way the jail was constructed. The bars were above you, literally. They were above your heads.
Bailey-Bankston
Some portion of the bars. That's right. Yes, yes. And the way we were treated in the justice system, too. We did not get justice, according to the Constitution. And so that also played a part in saying that we were beneath justice in America.
Njemile Ali
Absolutely, and it all lines up. It brings to mind the flag, which has the bars in it as well.
Bailey-Bankston
Right.
Njemile Ali
The references on the cover, the US Constitution, slave, three-fifths humans, the Jim Lynch letter, Jim Crow, separate and unequal, whites only--all of those bars, keeping us out of equality.
Bailey-Bankston
Absolutely, absolutely. And let me correct one thing, because I see you are looking at that first printing of the book, and the Jim Lynch letter should be the Willie Lynch letter. We had a note inside that cover, because it was discovered right after the printing of that first batch. After the first batch, it was corrected, but we did put that note in there, that it should have been Willie Lynch instead of Jim Lynch.
Njemile Ali
Well you know, it could have been any one of the Lynches [both laugh].
Bailey Bankston
Good point!
Njemile Ali
The last name is Lynch—from the Lynch family.
Bailey Bankston
That's right.
Njemile Ali
Also, do you know of any other civil rights story that tells it from the point of view of a young person, male or female?
Bailey-Bankston
I do. In fact, that's a question that someone asked me a couple of months ago. That person is doing a segment on civil rights, including the Albany story. The author that I know of is Gloria Ward, who wrote about her experience in the Civil Rights movement as a teenager. It's a delightful book. I have a copy of it. That's the only one that I'm familiar with, from a teenager's point of view.
Njemile Ali
Is she from Albany?
Bailey-Bankston
She's from Albany. Her full name is Reverend Dr. Gloria Ward Wright. And her book is entitled, From the Back of the Line: The Views of a Teenager from the 1960s Civil Rights Movement. It’s a very good book.
Njemile Ali
And yours is too. It’s very readable, very engaging. Reading it, you go through laughter, tears, the whole experience is just right there. I could see it all happening as I was reading. It’s really well written, and it's an important story, too. I really appreciate the fact that you did it—you recorded it for us and younger generations.
Bailey-Bankston
You know, it stayed in my spirit all those years. And for many years, it was like, I could smell that jail. It just stayed with me. I mean, it took a long time for me to get to 2013. And I always say, 50 years from when the experience actually happened to when it could be read by others. It was a long time, but it was something that was so important to me to share.
Njemile Ali
it's important to all of us, because you captured so much in there, including the Lena Baker story. I thought it was beautifully woven into your story through your grandmother.
Bailey-Bankston
Yes. And I didn't know the significance, of course, of it at the time. At some point, the Civil Rights Institute hosted the one woman play on Lena Baker, sponsored by Clark Atlanta University. That’s when it really came to me how significant and historical her story was. Later, I was able to visit her grave. For years, it had been unmarked, but they did put a headstone on it at some point, maybe around 2014 or 15.
Njemile Ali
It’s great that that was done on her behalf. It's painful to see any person not being given the due of their presence on Earth. And here’s someone who was such a heroine, in the sense of representing herself with courage and dignity, all the way to the end. She was a light, for others to defend themselves.
Bailey-Bankston
Absolutely, absolutely.
Njemile Ali
She said that you had the right to defend yourself. She said, "God has forgiven me, and my conscience is strong."
Bailey-Bankston
Right, exactly. [
Njemile Ali
So, the experiences of the other young ladies: have you come back in contact with any of your cellmates, and any of the other young people who were jailed at the same time?
Bailey-Bankston
Yes, I'm friends with a few of them, because some of them were my classmates, and a few of them live here in Albany now. In fact, three of them are in the book club that I'm a part of, and I've been in touch with two or three others over the years.
Njemile Ali
I would think that many of them would say, "Hey, me, too, I was there!" once they found out about your book.
Bailey-Bankston
Yes, and they were very supportive of it. In fact, just yesterday, I went to lunch with one of them and another friend from church. We were talking about a book that we're reading in the book club, and she mentioned that it reminded her of my book, because it's sort of fictional. And I said, "No," and the one who had been in jail, who was there at the lunch said, "No, it's not fictional." I said, "The only thing that is fictional is that I did not use the names of the people."
That was my first time attempting to get something published. And I didn't want to use the names of people without their permission. Unless they were public figures, of course, like Dr. King and the leaders of the Civil Rights Movement. That was different. But the young ladies who were in jail with me, I did not want to take the liberty of using their names, and if it represented something that they were not proud of, or wanting to share, then I didn't want to do that. And so that's why I started with the focus of using fictitious names, but the story itself is true.
And that's what the other young lady who had been in jail said. "That's a true story. I was there. It is true." So, in hindsight, I don't think I would change that, because people are entitled to their privacy and the right to allow people to use their identification. And, of course, I wouldn't have known how to reach most of those young ladies, so I just went with fictitious names.
Njemile Ali
Is there any part of the story that stays with you more than any other part?
Bailey-Bankston
Well, I think there are there are several, but I would have to say when Dr. King came to the jail, and the pandemonium that broke out. And the fact that I learned that I hadn't really marched with him. I thought I had, until they corrected me the day that he came down. But that was so moving to me. Dr. King, Abernathy and just the whole entourage came and they all kneeled at the fence and Dr. King prayed. That stayed with me. It's still with me. That was quite an emotional time, really. Because he was proud of us. The fact that, being teenagers, we were willing, in the heat of the summer, to stay in a crowded jail to fight for freedom. That was the whole story to me—being able to stick it out. Because I could have gotten out earlier, but I did not want to, we wanted to stay together as a group. They say there's strength in numbers. I think so.
Njemile Ali
And you all kept your energy up. You comforted each other during that time, using everything you had, your friendship, the songs, prayer, even the stuff that was going on between each other. [LAUGHTER]
Bailey-Bankston
Well remember, we were teenagers, you know.
Njemile Ali
It let you be whole people at the same time. I call it a coming of age story, because it was a time when you made that decision on your own. I'm going to do this. I want to talk about that decision, juxtaposed with when you came home, and the family celebrated you so beautifully. As much as you made that decision, you still had that sense of responsibility to your parents, to not disobey them. I want to come back to that in a moment. In coming of age, in making that decision—it’s such a very human process, of getting to that point, and choosing your path in life. How do you feel about that now? How do you feel that that decision has influenced the rest of your life?
Bailey-Bankston
Well, I certainly think it did. I guess it showed me that I had compassion and I had curiosity and even a commitment, in a way, to see our lives improve. And because it was talked about so much, it was in the heat of the Civil Rights Movement. The thing about the students from Albany State University—College, at that time—being expelled. They had gone down to the bus station and tried to board buses or eat at the lunch counter, and they were arrested.
The University System of Georgia, I guess, put pressure on Albany State's president to expel them. And so that was talked about, because I had a sister and brother at Albany State at the time. So I heard a lot about it. But I also heard about how courageous they were to even go down and attempt to do that. So as a movement got organized and the meetings were held, I was so interested in that. I wanted to learn more about it, and I wanted to support it.
That's sort of been a theme throughout my life, getting involved, where possible, and supporting worthy causes, doing things to help the community. So that was a good stepping stone for me, in terms of volunteering to do various tasks and be on various committees or a part of organizations that work to make it better in the community, especially for people who are less fortunate. So yeah, I think that was a good starting point for me.
Njemile Ali
Awesome, awesome. So talk about that homecoming.
Bailey-Bankston
Oh, wow! That blew my mind. Because my mindset was, okay, you disobeyed, and you're going to be punished. So I was set for a punishment. Because, this was big time—you go away from home and disobey by getting into a demonstration. We called it back then, marching, and getting arrested and then getting bused to another town and they didn't know where I was. And I was supposed to really be under the supervision of an older sister, and I disobeyed her.
So, I just knew that I was going to be punished, and I was going to be a big girl about taking it, whatever it was. Then, being surprised, first of all that grandparents were there at the house, and then that they were planning this dinner celebration. And that I have a new dress to put on! I mean, all of that just blew my mind. And I was still on pins and needles a little bit before everything actually unfolded, because I knew that it was worthy of punishment, to be disobedient to the point that I went all the way and got myself in trouble. And then they had to pay to get me out as we approached a new school year. You know, you have to buy school clothes, and all of that. And we were a big family, without money to spare.
So all of that weighed on me, even though I felt that my being a part of the demonstration was worthy, a worthy cause ,of course, but I knew that I needed to suffer the consequences of being disobedient. So as I got my bath and then got this new dress, got my hair washed and just clean up, because I was smelly and dirty. It was no question about that. And then to have just the comments that came from them about how proud they were of me and how they had prayed.
Listening to my grandmother and granddaddy talk about that. And then, my mother said she forgave me for that. That was awesome. And that just made me cry. Because as I said, I had built myself up to get the punishment. And it was like a celebration of what I had done, they were proud of me. That was just awesome. I'll never forget that. And I guess along with the visit from Dr. King, that would be right beside it, or number two, in terms of the things that really stand out to me about the experience.
Njemile Ali
Were there any lessons that you felt in the moment, either during your stay, or after your stay on reflection, that you can recall that you learned, or that came to you?
Bailey-Bankston
Well, one thing--when you are struggling for a cause, that people really can come together around that cause. People who have the same beliefs about getting through it. And I guess I was most impressed about how teenagers could do that. And the prayers that came from teenagers. I'd never heard girls or teenagers pray the way those young ladies did.
And also that a hierarchy of power develops in a group, even when you're not actually making that happen. It just automatically happens. The older young ladies just kind of rose as the leaders and the rest of us just followed. You know, so those kinds of things. There's a natural order of things, apparently, and that was evident there.
And, just at home, being respectful of the fact that, when your parents tell you something, it's for your own benefit. They are doing what they think it is the best for you. And, we were wrong, but they didn't get in such a position that they couldn't acknowledge that they were proud of me. Even though I had disobeyed them, they were proud of the fact that I did that, and I was able to stick with it for the length of that week when everybody was there.
There were weak moments for me in there, but I was determined to stay. So, it's just that sometimes you don't know what your strength may be, until you actually go through something. Or what your tolerance can be, until you actually are faced with it. Because I don't know that I ever would have thought I could stay in a place that was as hot as it was, as stinking as it was, as miserable as it was, with food that was just almost unbearable to eat that they served. But when you look at what is the purpose of what you're doing, you know, it's surprising that you can bear it.
Njemile Ali
That's awesome. I think you showed so much maturity and consideration of all those different ins and outs, at that age. I think that was pretty phenomenal, and showed a whole lot of leadership. Personally, I see you keeping that light going throughout your life. Any parting words that you want to add?
Bailey-Bankston
Well, I would say, to anybody who's had a desire to put their story on paper, to do it, don't give up. You can really be surprised at what you can produce. And a lot of times, you have things in your head, you have experiences, but you don't know where to start or how it's going to turn out. But just do it anyway. Once you get into it, you won't leave it.
I mean, I used to sleep with a pad and pen in my bed, because I'd wake up during the night and say, "Oh, I need to make sure I include this." So it was exciting to me as I started writing the story. And it was a long journey, but you don't give up. You don't ever give up, because you want to see the fruits of your labor. So I would just encourage anybody with a story to get to work and do it.
Njemile Ali
Well, thank you so much. You got to work, you did it and you left a really beautiful legacy. For growing up, for being human, for being Black, for being a leader, for being a girl in a man's world [LAUGHTER]. There's so much that can be taken in so many different directions. And it all came through the pages. So, I want to say, beautiful job. Well done. And thank you.
Bailey-Bankston
Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Look forward to reading the first edition of KIZA BlackLit.